on stupidity

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on stupidity

gepr
https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/02/14/addendum-to-targeting-meritocracy/

> if people seem slightly stupid, they’re probably just stupid. But if they seem colossally and inexplicably stupid, you probably differ in some kind of basic assumption so fundamental that you didn’t realize you were assuming it, and should poke at the issue until you figure it out.
--
glen

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uǝʃƃ ⊥ glen
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Re: on stupidity

Marcus G. Daniels
A fundamental assumption is that one shouldn't be disgusting.  Being slightly stupid and disgusting isn't redeeming.   The meritocracy thing is a straw man.

On 2/14/20, 7:02 PM, "Friam on behalf of glen" <[hidden email] on behalf of [hidden email]> wrote:

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/02/14/addendum-to-targeting-meritocracy/
   
    > if people seem slightly stupid, they’re probably just stupid. But if they seem colossally and inexplicably stupid, you probably differ in some kind of basic assumption so fundamental that you didn’t realize you were assuming it, and should poke at the issue until you figure it out.
    --
    glen
   
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Re: on stupidity

glen e p ropella
Hm. But you can't deny that we're all stupid at some time, in some context, for some isolated decision. The point is that a slight deviation is "yet another episode of my stupidity", whereas a large deviation implies a different basis ... like the garbage poetry I wrote as a kid. It's so stupid, I can't come to any conclusion BUT that those words came from someone else.

On February 14, 2020 7:54:33 PM PST, Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:
>A fundamental assumption is that one shouldn't be disgusting.  Being
>slightly stupid and disgusting isn't redeeming.   The meritocracy thing
>is a straw man.
--
glen ep ropella 971-599-3737

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Re: on stupidity

Steven A Smith
glen -

I tend to agree with your intuition that something that seems
egregiously "stupid" might well simply be registered in a different
basis space...  or more aptly "a different value system".  It is
easy/convenient enough to just "discount it" and move on, but if the
subject is important enough, it is probably worth watching/looking
carefully to see if there is something I'm missing about the (un)shared
assumptions/axioms/values.

On the other hand I was raised to respect Rodeo Clowns on the basis that
"you have to be really good to be that bad!"  Which roughly describes
Tricksters and Trolls who can concoct a very specific "clashing"
narrative to your own.

My own "stupidity" in the sense of "demonstrated ignorance" seems to
come from operating not so much in a *different* basis space, but in a
*subdimensional* one...  which leaves my expressions limited in nuance
relative to the conversation/context at hand.

- steve

On 2/14/20 9:24 PM, glen e p ropella wrote:

> Hm. But you can't deny that we're all stupid at some time, in some context, for some isolated decision. The point is that a slight deviation is "yet another episode of my stupidity", whereas a large deviation implies a different basis ... like the garbage poetry I wrote as a kid. It's so stupid, I can't come to any conclusion BUT that those words came from someone else.
>
> On February 14, 2020 7:54:33 PM PST, Marcus Daniels <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> A fundamental assumption is that one shouldn't be disgusting.  Being
>> slightly stupid and disgusting isn't redeeming.   The meritocracy thing
>> is a straw man.
> --
> glen ep ropella 971-599-3737
>
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> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: on stupidity

Marcus G. Daniels
Steven writes:

<   I tend to agree with your intuition that something that seems
    egregiously "stupid" might well simply be registered in a different
    basis space...  or more aptly "a different value system".   >

Indeed, like a provincial value system.   One that optimizes for local interests in ignorance or indifference to interests of anyone else.   Even if the magnitude of their eigenvalue is tiny by comparison.

Marcus


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Re: on stupidity

Steven A Smith
Marcus -
<   I tend to agree with your intuition that something that seems
    egregiously "stupid" might well simply be registered in a different
    basis space...  or more aptly "a different value system".   >

Indeed, like a provincial value system.   One that optimizes for local interests in ignorance or indifference to interests of anyone else.   Even if the magnitude of their eigenvalue is tiny by comparison. 

I think I am arguing for recognizing parochial  (qualitative) as well as provincial (quantitative) scoping errors. 

This article is not the precise argument I am looking for, but it does generally reflect one that I encountered a few years ago which I think suggested that not only do Conservatives hold Authority/Ingroup/Purity *higher*  than Fairness and a very close 2nd,3rd,4th to Harm, but that they tend to experience Authority/Ingroup/Purity as something more like Loyalty/Honor.   Both this article and the line of argument I can't precisely remember/find seemed to suggest that Liberals ethics were *simpler* than  Conservatives which I think is vaguely specious?

http://www.ethicsdefined.org/the-problem-with-morality/conservatives-vs-liberals/

- Steve



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Re: on stupidity

Marcus G. Daniels
Yup, define..

  Disgustingness = Authority / Fairness 

..and that's my point.  That said, there are plenty of liberals who favor their own circle of friends and have their own echo chambers.  The fear of loss of order mentioned in that article is pretty much one-to-one with authority.   Bill Barr doesn't care about families without fathers, or other elements of social conservatism, it is just hot air in service of having men like him in positions of power.  Perhaps with suitable units, this would all be tautological from dimensional analysis!

Marcus

From: Friam <[hidden email]> on behalf of Steven A Smith <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2020 12:41 PM
To: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] on stupidity
 
Marcus -
<   I tend to agree with your intuition that something that seems
    egregiously "stupid" might well simply be registered in a different
    basis space...  or more aptly "a different value system".   >

Indeed, like a provincial value system.   One that optimizes for local interests in ignorance or indifference to interests of anyone else.   Even if the magnitude of their eigenvalue is tiny by comparison. 

I think I am arguing for recognizing parochial  (qualitative) as well as provincial (quantitative) scoping errors. 

This article is not the precise argument I am looking for, but it does generally reflect one that I encountered a few years ago which I think suggested that not only do Conservatives hold Authority/Ingroup/Purity *higher*  than Fairness and a very close 2nd,3rd,4th to Harm, but that they tend to experience Authority/Ingroup/Purity as something more like Loyalty/Honor.   Both this article and the line of argument I can't precisely remember/find seemed to suggest that Liberals ethics were *simpler* than  Conservatives which I think is vaguely specious?

http://www.ethicsdefined.org/the-problem-with-morality/conservatives-vs-liberals/

- Steve



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